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Sunday, 20 November 2016

Rainwater Harvesting dies. Caveat Emptor - especially with Kingspan Envireau

Ages ago on this Blog I posted about rainwater harvesting problems.   The trouble then was the failure of the main water pump, located in the 1,000 gallon underground tank in front of the tower.   We were teetering on the brink of being outside the warranty period for the Kingspan Envireau system but with goodwill all round a new pump was supplied and all was well - for a while.

Some months later the system failed again.   Sorry, said Kingspan Envireau, you're on you own now and it's £300 for an engineer to attend.

That sort of call out change makes rainwater harvesting uneconomic when compared with mains water.

I approached the rainwater harvesting industry's trade body who put me in touch with one of their members, Edward Daykin from  Ecoserve in Newark who called when he was next in our area.   He got us going again for a fraction of Kingspan Envireau's price.   What was the problem?   Edward could not tell - he had simply dismantled the system at the tank end and it had started to work on re-assembly.   A dodgy connection presumably.

http://www.ecoserve-uk.com

This summer the system failed again, the fault screen announcing that the remote sensor in the tank or its connection was faulty.   The connection is some 40 metres of underground wire - even though Kingspan Envireau's own recommendation is that the wire should not exceed 15 m.

But hey, hang on - our system had been fitted by Kingspan Envireau themselves for two reasons
- our plumber had never fitted one himself and
- we were being televised so failure could be public and embarrassing for Kingspan Envireau.

So Kingspan Envireau KNEW from the start that our system had a connecting wire nearly three times their own recommendation and this connection was what had failed.   It's all to do with capacitance.  A call to the once helpful Kingspan Envireau helpline proved futile.  Out of warranty - now down to you mate, as it were.

I decided to abandon the system that had cost a great deal of money and to revert to mains water, putting the Kingspan Envireau decision down to one of life's bad ones.

But hang on another mo..  Did I really need a complicated box of tricks in our utility room to tell us how deep the water was in the outside tank?   The system had never accepted the full depth measurement anyway.   When after a dry spell it was showing empty,  physical inspection of the tank showed it was a least half full.

Does everybody with a rainwater harvesting system have this many problems?    I Googled - as you do these days.   I soon discovered that these systems can be as simple as a tank, a pump and a pressure switch to shut down the pump should it run dry.   The Kingspan Envireau system was grossly over complicated and any one of 101 possible problems resulted in the system shutting down and undue expense every time.   An alternative might be an annual 'service' at even greater expense.

So I called my good friend Edward Daykin and explained.   What did HE think about my plan to abandon the Kingspan Envireau system entirely, rip it out and replace it with a pressure switch?   "Sounds like an excellent plan" was his astonishing reply.   "Just one thing - install a float switch as well to make quite sure the pump doesn't keep going and burn out if it every gets dry".

So that, dear reader, is what I have done.

Here is the Kingspan Envireau gubbins that I have removed:

click to enlarge

Kingspan Evireau control panel - £339.07 + VAT


and

Kingspan Envireau sensor display - £82.89 + VAT


and here is what replaces them both:



£81.66 - INCLUDING VAT

Oh yes, and a float switch:

£8 - E-Bay








8 comments:

  1. Fantastic articulation and explanation of the Kingspan shortcomings with this product. Same issue for me with distance of the monitor to the sensor. Kingspan all over me during the sale process & disappeared over the hills from the moment stuff was installed. They couldn't & woudln't even recommend a filter. A very disappointing experience. €413 just for them to call out. 148 to replace sensor. Replaced it myself at cost €167. System failed again 4 months later. Does your solution work? please tell me how it is working out. Genius idea, well done.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Our much simplified and cheaper solution has now been working faultlessly for 2+ years. Thank you Ronan - we are in touch by E-mail. Who knows we may become founder members of the Kingspan Envireau victims society?

      Delete
    2. Our Kingspan has been an expensive nightmare since we inherited it 4 years ago. Today I’m sitting with a cup of tea, not knowing what to do because it’s spewing water from the pipes in the cupboard where all the technical bits are!! We have been connected to the mains for about 6 months, because the toilets were not refilling after flushing. If we connect back to the Kingspan, the torrent of water stops, but the toilet tanks don’t refill! So return to mains and the torrent begins again! We can either not have flushing toilets or drown. Someone please help me!!

      Delete
  2. Hello
    I Read your article. Thanks for sharing such beautiful information, and I hope you will share some more info about Rainwater Harvesting. You wrote really very well, I really like your blog and information provided by you. I appreciate your work.
    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  3. Hello
    I Read your article. Thanks for sharing such beautiful information, and I hope you will share some more info about Rainwater Harvesting. You wrote really very well, I really like your blog and information provided by you. I appreciate your work.
    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  4. Hello Settle Station Water Tower.
    First, congratulations on that beautiful building which, I imagine, is a conversion into a house.
    I found your blog when I was searching for advice on the current problem afflicting my 16-year-old Klargester Envireau system. Like you, I have been astonished by Klargester's call-out charges especially as I live only six miles from their Portadown, Co. Armagh factory, so I do all the maintenance work on the system myself.
    The Vortex filter was the first disappointment - most of the water flows across the surface of the mesh and off to the soakaway and it needs frequent cleaning to allow any water into the tank. I had a lot of trouble with leaks from the pump delivery hose caused by the connectors on the pump and the outlet from the tank being of different diameters. Working at the outlet from my 3,000 litre tank is very difficult as it is within the 24 inch diameter upstand of the tank. The pump had to be replaced after about eight years and I'm pleased to say that the local Ebara agent was excellent. A pressure vessel was fitted along with the replacement pump on recommendation of an engineer friend to reduce cycling of the pump on my direct system. It was not mentioned in the Klargester installation guide. A more recent fault was a burned-out relay on the control panel PCB. Klargester recommended a complete replacement at more than £700 (plus fitting, of course). I photographed the inside of the panel to make sure I could refit all the connections in the right places, took out PCB and had it repaired in Belfast for £25.
    I could continue but I won't! The present fault is probably due to a faulty depth sensor. Symptoms are the low-level warning rattling and the top-up valve opening and closing rapidly, although the tank is almost full. I think it time to try a more radical approach to this malevolent machine and try your simplified approach. I would be pleased to hear from you if you have a minute - my email is brucefacrawford@gmail.com .
    I'm relieved to find that I'm not alone!

    ReplyDelete
  5. Hello'
    Really nice information you had posted. Its very informative and definitely it will be useful for many people.
    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  6. Hello again
    I have followed Settle Station Water Tower's advice and dumped the troublesome Envireau controller. The pump is now controlled by an Italtechnica Brio 2000-MT switch which is similar to the unit used at the Water Tower but without an integral pressure vessel. There was already a pressure vessel in my system so this switch was the most appropriate choice. It was a direct swap for the Klargester controller and a straightforward job for a plumber to install. I would have fitted it myself but I thought it was less likely to leak if a plumber did it. The electrical connections were easy - three cores in and three cores out and then the test run.
    Everything worked as intended and it's still going strong after two and a half weeks. Not a long time you may think, but surely a good omen. The system no longer has automatic top-up but that was highly inefficient anyway so I'm better off without it. Also gone is the tank contents gauge but the Brio controller has an automatic cut-out if the pump should run dry and it's only a case of switching over to mains supply with two valves until the tank refills sufficiently. Like others have experienced, my Klargester controller went into panic mode whenever the tank dropped to half full (1500 litres remaining). If anyone out there knows of a depth gauge which can work by wireless from an underground tank or one which will connect to the existing low voltage six-core cable, I'd be pleased to hear from them.
    My thanks to Settle Station Water Tower for his help and advice. I look forward to trouble-free times ahead collecting and using rainwater and - great news - it's raining as I write this!

    ReplyDelete

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